29 Dec 90
I have
planned to spend the New Year long weekend at Hohuan
Shan. I thought I would walk up from Tayuling and
then down to
Wushu
returning to Taipei. As the bus from Hualien to Tayuling
will leave
only at 730am, it did not really matter if I leave
Taipei late
on Saturday.
That timing
was fateful, as was the can of Pepsi I bought.
I took the
11.43pm train from Taipei to Hualien. I
bought some
snacks and a
Pepsi from the Station. Finished the
snack and
fell asleep
on the train.
30 Dec 90
They woke me
up at Hualien. That can was still
unopened.
Taking that
with me, I slung on the backpack and
walked out of
the
station. Pulled the tab and strode on
into the cold morning
air of
Hualien City. I wanted to go to the
nearby park to watch
the dawn
breaking over the city.
Walking past
the bus stop, I thought it would be more
comfortable
to sit there and finished the Pepsi first.
There
were some
Taiwanese there sleeping and sitting at the bench when
I made my
way to a seat.
A
conversation started up with three guys there.
They had
backpacks
all over, and I think people with backpacks always
find others
with backpacks to be fascinating to each other.
While we may
have different dreams and routes, we share the same
urge to
explore and find out a bit more of our world.
That
curiosity
extends to people as well. Besides,
talking about
routes help
to pool information for any later plans.
They knew I
was not a local from the way I talked.
They were
intrigued by
the way I wandered around by myself here in
Taiwan.Told
them also of the way I checked out other parts of
the world by
myself.
The talk
switched to philosophy and political world.
I guessed
that failed
when they brought in one more member of their group
as
interpreter. She told them I was
talking on 'Eastern Europe'
and not
'Eastern neu-rou' and that have nothing to do with
neu-rou mein
or neu-rou chang (this is directly translated to
'beef
place', a place where pretty girls will sing two songs
each, the
first song will be sang in beautiful elegant outfits,
and the
second song with just their shoes and a smile).
The
disparity of what I was saying and what they thought they
were
comprehending was so vast. That knowledge of the standard
of Chinese I
commanded depressed me. I wondered that perhaps my
earlier
conversation with them on philosophical matters must
also have
taken on warped undertones as well. I
reckoned if I
try to set
that right, even greater damages may result.
I gave
a big sigh
deep inside my mind.
Her name is
Amanda and she has a friend Chin-hua with her( I
tend to pay
more attention and remember girls' names better).
It was
getting about 5am, I suggested we could perhaps walk on
to the bus
station about 1/2 hour away.
They woke up
the rest of the group, a guy with his newly wed
wife, her
sister and boyfriend, and a girl with a most
enchanting
voice like notes tinkling from wind-chimes.
A
pretty girl with delicate Chinese features and who
smiled from
her heart.
I gathered
they were going to walk on an old road at the Taroka
Gorge though
I was still not clear of the details yet. I
gathered the
road was somewhat above the existing road that the
traffic
runs. I thought it was going to be a fairly easy walk.
I enjoyed
their company, and I thought where I wanted to go can
still be
done another time by myself. A trip on
their route may
not be
possible on my own. They readily
accepted me when I
asked to
join them.
Shortly
after breakfast, we left on the local bus to Taroka
Gorge. It was driven by a very friendly man who
became even
friendlier
and talkative when he heard from them where they
intended to
go.
We dropped
at the bridge shortly after a dam. We
clambered 20'
down rocks,a
little bit different from the 'old road' I expected
to 'walk'
on. I thought that's only the start,
and that it
should get
easier later on. Never was I more
wrong. We crossed
the bridge
to the other side of the Gorge. We then
climbed up
more
boulders, pushed through some under growth, and down onto
the river
bank. I cracked my right knee on the
first jump, just
what I need
to add to my left ankle, still wobbly
after the
wrench it
received 6 weeks back. Grit my teeth ,
told them no
problem and
continued. The pain eased after a while.
I knew I
dressed wrongly, having thermal undershirt on with
thick T
shirt and padded shirt. Also had on my
old pair of
jeans meant
for walking. That was with me for over
15 years and
we have been
to many treks together. It was too
tight to allow
me to bend
my legs freely to climb up or down. I
thought I was
going for a
walk in the cold air of Tayuling to Hohuanshan in
the first
place. Stripped off my shirt as I was
over heating in
the climbing
up and down of the boulders along the bank.
It was
fun still.
The boulders
appeared so deceptively small when seen from the
roadside. They were the size of big buses and cars we
have to
climb
over. At one place, we had to take off
our shoes and
socks to
wade in the swift cold water of the river.
The
smoothness
of the boulders,despite their size, gave an idea of
the force of
the river at its peak flow. Powerful as
the river
was, the
driftwood packed twenty feet above the water line
showed what
it could really do. Those boulders must
have been
washed along
like pebbles. The banks were molded out
of granite
and
marble. History of powerful events of
long time past where
recorded in
the striations. They were further
twisted and fused
by the
forces of the tectonic plates grinding and heating them.
Pages of the
history of the world written in a way befitting to
them.
To add to
the fun, at one point, some yellowish metallic
particles
were found in the sand. One of the guy
collected a
fair bit of
that. I thought they were probably
mica. However,
when
examined through a magnifying glass, they appeared to be
granular and
not flaky. I did not see any quartz
normally
associated
with gold, should that really have been gold.
If I
had, I would
have collected some myself. I thought
also if all
those
shining stuff have been gold, people would have been
mining and
panning for those stuff as well.
We climbed
up and down, transfering backpacks. I
felt
embarrased
at the weight of those three leaders' pack.
They
must have
packed a lot of gear. My own pack was
light,
consisting
mainly of warm clothing. I noticed those three were
normally in
front actively seeking out the route. I
wondered
why are we
looking up at people at the road above us when we
should be
looking down on them far below as briefed earlier.
They did
their best, but it was not passable. We
turned back
the same way
we came by to the bridge. We rested at
the
northern
tunnel which seemed to be abandoned half constructed.
It had
chinese words saying it was connected with hydroelectic
power. Still, looking at the construction, it
contained certain
characteristics
and seemed to be designed for military uses.
I
have build
and seen enough of such features. They
pulled from
the packs
stoves, pots and pans and cooked up a meal of instant
mee. Very tasty too. Also showed a little bit why
the packs
were heavy.
After a
short rest, we carried on by the main road.
Looking
back across
where we tried to travel, we could see why it took
us two hours
to get to a point where the main road on the other
side took us
20 minutes. At the point where we
turned back, not
even a
mountain goat could get through.
Just before
Yen-chi-kou, there is a spidery suspension bridge of
steel wire
and bamboo spanning the river 200' below us.
The
leader
pointed us to go down. By now I
expect the unexpected.
I peered
over the road edge to see a series of flimsy ladders
going
down. It moved with my every step. I thought it to be
dangerous. When I finished with the trip, I would have
consider
that to be
so ridiculously safe.
The bridge
could take us across one at a time. The
swaying
could get
you queasy but it was fun in its own way.
The other
side have
broad paths of cobble stones. The way
water were
seeping out
from the wall, a series of pools of clear running
water were
formed like fountain terraces backed against the
cobble paths
where they seeped through in turn.
It was a
beautiful day with little wisps of clouds and a nice
warm
sun. The green trees and bushes
marching down the gorge
slope made
us linger on a while.
I was
fascinated with the tadpoles in the pools.
Acid rain and
other
pollutants have apparently wiped out a lot of the frogs in
Europe and
North America. As amphibians they seem to be most
sensitive to
the effects of man. Whether we shrugged
off their
departure or
we take them as canaries used at mines where their
deaths will
give early warnings to miners is up to us.
I am
happy to see
them around.
As we
gathered to move on, I offered to switch the heaviest pack
as I felt
guilty. They declined assuring me it is
ok with them.
We went up
the slope on a little path. Zig and zag up the side.
The trees
and undergrowth were thick and cannot be seen through
to a
distant. Now and then, yellow trail
markers were tied to
indicate the
path.
It was
tiring and hot. The nice warm sun that
felt so nice
earlier
seemed to be making its effect even through the cool
leaves. I was glad no one took up my offer to switch
packs. 15
minutes took
us to another suspension bridge
spanning a chasm.
I thought
the 'road' would start there as that was a big red
bridge
easily seen from the main road.
There was no
'road'. If one look carefully amonge
the bushes to
the side
after the bridge, a little path can be seen.
Seems
like the
bridge was build big and painted a nice red so pretty
pictures can
be taken of it by tourist in their buses on the
main road.
The uphill
climb continued. The mountain slope is
a good 65-70
degree. The path twist and turned upwards.
The air must
be cool. After all, it is supposed to
be winter,
on a
mountain slope with air filtered by green leaves. Others
are wearing
thick sweaters and moving on smoothly. I only feel
my sweat
coming out, flowing down my back. I
breath heavily, to
draw in more
cool air. I meditate on ice orange
juice . I
switched to
thinking of wind-swept Artic winter. I
imagined the
soaked
thermal underwear and T shirt to be evaporating and
cooling
me. My legs kept moving. I looked above at the swaying
hips of
girls and imgagined how the rest of their bodies would
looked like
to distract myself. My body could not
transcend to
those
thoughts. I poured and poured sweat.
Then the
upward climb ended after rounding a group of boulders.
We reached a
meadow where we rested. I could only
think of
water to
drink. After a long draw at the bottle,
my mind then
recovered
enough to look around.
Before us,
stretched a field of waving 'Maung chow' grass in
full
flower. The sloping light of the sun
backlight the bushy
tops in a
soft silvery glow. On a gentle rise
just behind the
field,
humble dwellings of two families can be seen.
Then the
ground rose
again into a knoll. Two jagged mountain
tops appear
behind them
with white scars tracing where parts broke off into
screes
dusting lower parts of it. Clouds flow
past them playing
a game of
hide and seek . Right of the clearing,
the forest
grew rising
and dipping carpeting the slope in different shades
of green
towards the top. Now and then, maple trees with red
leaves made
crimsom splashes in that sea of green.
Standing on
the boulder,
the other side of the gorge loomed upwards.
The
main
road and traffic could just be made out
at the foot far
below. Yes, I could see that we are way above them
now.
We walked on
to the huts. That place is called
Pata-Kang.
There were
two families there from the Tai-yah-chu hill tribe.
Their
traditions were fast fading. They lived
off the land on
sweet
potatoes and other crops they grow. The
youngest is a
toddler
about 3 years old. One of them was said
to be near one
hundred
years old and looked like it. She have
a broad black
band
tattooed across her mouth. They allowed
us to camp and
presented us
with some sweet potatoes.
Three tents
were quickly set up. Stoves, pots and
pans and a
staggering
amount of food poured from the backpacks.
That
explained
the weight of some of the packs. The
girls got
organised and
I tried not to get in their way. We ate
and ate.
Fruits were
Mandarin oranges and tiny hill peaches taken off the
orchard
nearby. Flickering flames from a big
wax torch lit up
the night
while we glutted ourselves. The
tattooed lady joined
us producing
a bottle of rice wine. I bribed her
with
cigarettes
to get a share. It tasted so nice in
that cool night
air. None of
the other guys wanted it. Yu Hwa, the
girl with
the tinkling
voice liked the aroma and joined us two in enjoying
the wine.
We sat
around and talked away in the warm afterglow of a good
meal and our
sense of achievement of that day. They
still
thought I
was a bit unusual in traveling so much on om own.
Then a voice
broke in on us.
My jaws
dropped along with the others at the sight of this guy
walking
nonchalantly into the circle of light with his backpack
and a small
torchlight slung over his shoulder asking if he
could join
in. It was tough enough during daylight
hours to get
up. He came in alone in the middle of the night
like he was
strolling to
the 7-11 store. When asked how he felt
about
coming up
alone at night, he said "oh yes, it was a bit scary".
We laughed
at his understatement breaking the ice, if any.
Quite a good
looking slim guy and charming too. It
was
interesting
to see Amanda (the interpreter) and her girfriend
Chin-hwa
talking to him like probing his suitability as a
boyfriend. I must say that is my guess from the body
languages
expressed as
they were using their normal chinese too rapid for
me to
understand and not the simple one they used with me.
The others
soon prepared to go to sleep. I
declined their
sincere
invitations to join them in the tents.
I have been told
by friends I
snore and I do not wish to strain the new
friendships
I have made.I also do not sleep early.
The night
was really
too beautiful up there by the mountainside.
The moon
was nearly
full, lighting up the surrounding with its silvery
beams,
almost bright enough to read by. The
air had just a
slight nip
of chill. The down sleeping bag I was
in would be
enough. The canopy of the sky was comforting . It
was one of
those rare
moments in life where it is good to sleep under the
stars. I took out a candle preparing to read Barry
Lopez's
latest book,
'Crossing Open Ground' before I sleep.
Lone Ranger
joined me shortly. Found he is better
known as
Chen-hung. He lectures in software and 'C' language
when he is
not roaming
around the mountains on foot or on his mountainbike
normally on
his own. He decided too that the night
is too
beautiful to
sleep in the tent and dragged his sleeping bag out
as
well. We talked on for a long time,
sharing our experiences
and
philosophies, too complex to put into words here. Went to
sleep as we did not want to disturb others too
much. I think
we may see a
bit of each other after the trip.
31 Dec 90
Woke up from
a good sleep I have had. The wind blew
up a bit
during the
night. I was aware of it in my
dreams. Nice to be
wrapped up
in the sleeping bag and cocooned by the
raw
elements. Felt good to have been near and intimate
with Mother
Nature.
We all
packed and prepared to continue on.
Chen-hung said his
goodbyes and
continued on while we carried on with the
breakfast. We then loaded up with water and went
on. The trail
snaked up
behind the fruit trees at the back. I
got an inkling
from the day
before and stripped down to a T shirt and jeans
this time as
it was hot work walking up. Got to know
better
what we were
doing too.
I first
thought we were going on some road build in the Ming
dynasty
because of the name . It was Mingkuo chu liu nien
(translated
roughly to 6 years from the start of the present
rule started
by Dr Sun Yat Seng) or 74 years back.
It was the
only way
through the gorge before the new road was carved out
recently.
Now the old
road is used mainly by hikers. Not many
hikers
here. We did not see anyone else coming or going
on this way
unlike the
normal 'renshan renhai'(mountains of men and seas of
men) that
packed and jammed others places I have been to here in
Taiwan. I shortly understood the reasons why.
The climb
started upwards sharply again after the little knoll.
We got into
the rythmn . Consisting of weaving our ways up the
forested
slope on the path marked out by other groups.
Couldn't
see much of
the woods for the trees so to speak.
Compared to
the later
part of the day, the morning climb had no difficult
spots to
speak about other than the physical task of taking
yourself and
your pack up the slope.
It was
tiring work. The heat build up in my
body wasn't so bad.
We stopped
for welcomed short breaks now and then.
We could
then look
around and admire the view if there were breaks in the
trees. During the walk up, one have to concentrate
on the foot
holds and
the surroundings could not be taken in well.
The dynamics
of the group was getting clearer to me as well.
The first
three guys I meet took us all up. Lee
Wen-hwa, the
leader of
the group took up the rear. He seemed
serious and
wrapped in
his thoughts as the trip went on. Lee
Chinghai and
Ting Huakuan
took the front actively seeking the path markers.
They were
more relaxed , possibly less burdened with the
responsibility
of the group.
Amanda
bubbled along with energy ,quite expressive with her
voice and
gestures as to her likes and dislikes.
Chinhwa, her
goodnatured
friend was more quiet and always seemed happy.
Hsu
and Shi kept
much with the Lin sisters in their quiet little
group. I concentrated on absorbing as much as I
could of the
feeling of
this place.
About
midday, the steep almost continous upwards climb ended.
We came to
an overgrown rough path which could be seen easily
unlike much
of the trail before. It turned sharply
right
punching
through an outcrop of the moutain. It was a short
lenght of
tunnel that we would have camped in last night if not
for the time
lost in the morning.
Beautiful
place where we had a short break. A
maple tree was at
the
edge. The sun overhead shining behind
it made its red
leaves glow
like rubies. The richness of the red
against the
light blue
skies can only be captured in the mind's eye.
We walked
on. I was already deliriously happy
with the
exquisite
beauty of such a place. Then after
another turn in
the trail,
the true grandeur and the magnitude of the trail
broke on
me.
The trees
fell away as the side of the mountain plunged into an
85 degree
drop. The tiny path was hacked and blasted as a
little niche
in the sharply sloping granite walls of the
mountain.
The
mountains marched motionlessly on to the horizon. Down,
down at the
bottom of the gorge the river flowed as a tiny
trickle of
water. A thin ribbon of black with just barely
discernable
box like objects was the road with their tourist
buses. The mountains we were on were accompanied by
the
mountains on
the other side of the gorge. They
seemed alive
infused with
a bemused air at us.
Stillness of
the Tao and motion without motion. The
mind expand
and the body
falls away as the consciousness struggled to take
it all
in. That subconscious attempt conflict
with yet another
part of the
mind yearning to stay in the comfort of a smaller
world where
the Id is tangibly bigger in comparison.
Like a frog
taken out of the well to see the world and finding
how small it
actually is against that scale, then
struggling to
get back in
preferring the more comforting illusion the whole
world is in
the well.
Tiny bushes,
flowers and ferns clung on to life even on the bare
granite
walls and the path we were on. I walked
in small
measured
steps half in reverence for that place and to savour
the feeling
in the air.
Also,
perched on that 2 feet wide path suspended 2000 feet above
the ground below
by an almost vertical granite wall doesn't make
you want to
take very wide steps. Helped also by
the granite
chippings
which skid a bit now and then. And
thinking of the
earthquake
which struck Hualien with a force of 6 on Richter
scale only a
weekback. And that 600 over earthquakes
struck
Taiwan every
year. I was happy no strong winds were
blowing to
add in the
fun. I recalled a walk on a similar
path a few years
back after
Jomosom in Himalayas where I faced winds gusting
between
force 2 to 5.
That was a
very long 400 meters stretch. When then
path turned
around the
shoulder, I was relieved to be back in a more
sheltered
stretch . The slope wasn't vertical
allowing soil to
support
trees growing there. Nice for this frog
to be back in a
well. Then, the path twisted out again. With the road far far
below , and
we were walking on the ledge once more.
Earthquakes
did not hit us then. But over 67 years,
it hit the
trail many
times. It is a measure of how well it
was build by
those brave
people way back then that the trail remained intact
most of the
way. It is only in a few places where
the mountain
cracked and
tumbled down, taking the trail with it leaving empty
gaps.
At those
places, the 2 feet wide track I thought to be scary
looked so
safe and comforting to be on when you crossed the
gaps. They span them with little pieces of wood
tied up with
thin
wires. I looked at my lifeline etched in my palm to reassure
myself many
times that day. I became very conscious
of the 105
kilo I
packed into a pair of shoes.
At times, we
have to make our way down across debris of granite
and marble
boulders and clawed our way back up again.
Or up
over the
break and down again to the path. At
places, thin
steel cables
were in place to assist. If your
footing gave way,
those cables
would slice into your palms. Movements
have to be
made very
slow with fingers feeling for every fissure and feet
placed very
carefully. Had to expand the
consciousness to
heighten the
awareness of the environment and every movement
made with
slow deliberation. At lips of
overhangs, the path was
the dust
which gathered on the tangled roots of grass.
They
gave
slightly with every step.
In addition
to those plastic strips of trail markers, we looked
for 'lohans'
or little rocks piled up to show the way.
The knee
hurt a bit
especially on the downhill parts across the debris.
It would be
a bad place to have further injuries.
The jeans I
wore as
I thought I would be walking did were
difficult to
climb
with. I should have just changed them
but never thought
of it
then. Stiff-legged myself down by the
seat of the pants
over rocks
the size of small cars and inched up again.
Those three
guys have been incredible in getting us all across.
At bad
places, they got over and ferried the backpacks to the
other
side. I found it tough enough without
the packs and they
crossed with
that on. Of the three, Ting was the
mountain goat.
Small size
but really tough guy. My heart dropped
to see him
move at some
places. He have an incredible eye for
ledges and
footholds
which do not exist till you see him like walking on
air.
People
seating in cushioned comfort in buses and wooing and
wowing at
the river a few hundred feet below them and probably
thinking
that was all to it at Taroka gorge could not imagine
the drama
played 2000 feet above them. They may,
but I wasn't
looking at
them.
At one part,
the pieces of wood I was worried about have been
longed
for. One strand of wire hung down from
the other side.
An
earthquake took out our side leaving a gap of about 15 feet.
They got the
packs over. Positioned themselves to
pass the
girls
across. I have to say, the girls were
courageous. Anyone
panicking
will not panick for long.
I crossed
last. I spend the time in re studying
the foot and
hand holds,
replaying that over in my mind a few times to make
sure my
movements would be smooth. I had to
depend on myself as
I do not
want to take the chance of pulling anyone..
Taking
faith in
that only the good die young, I moved through like a
wraith in a
dream.
That was a
very very long two seconds in my life.
Anyone of
those crossings will be enough to flavour the trip.
Just like a
little bit of chilli will be nice with food,
but a
lot of it
really spice it up to the stage that the whole mouth
becomes
numb.
It was like
that on that trail. What would have
been dangerous
were became
routinely expected. The already
tremendous
experience
from the view transcended further into one
where we
walked with
our souls.
We have been
lucky. The weather was fine. If it have
had
rained, some
of those crossings would not be passable.
We ran short
of water. I sweated a lot and the
dehydration was
getting in
on me. We have been moving with very
little stops
since
morning when we set out. No lunch either except for the
beef jerky
and chocolates and caramel sweets I had with me that
we
shared. We wanted to get to a place
with water for the
night.
Exhaustion was setting in as well. In
the late
afternoon,
every stop would have me out completely in a
dreamless
sleep, sometimes not even taking off the backpack.
Night came.
We carried on a while with torchlight.
The
concentration
required to walk on safely cannot be sustained
with the
fatigue and using torchlight. Those
three must have
came to the
same conclusion. They called a halt
where the path
broaden a
bit. I dimly recalled pulling out the
sleeping bag,
changing out
of my sodden clothings and sleeping immediately.
Woke at 11pm
with most of the fatigue gone. Found
the three
have
courageously gone on to try to get water.
The rest of us
were resting
across the path shrouded with trees on both sides.
So many
times I woked up on New year day with hangover vowing I
will spend a
'dry' New years eve.
I got to do
it this time, the last day of this decade.
I
thought of
my friends who would be drinking away wondering where
they are and
the cheers they would be exchanging. It
would be a
New year eve
I will always remember.
Tried to
bring comfort to the girls assuring that those three
would be
safe as time went on and they did not
return. I felt
they must
have been tired also and would be back in the morning.
Spoke to Shi
taking turns with him to keep watch.
Some
moonlight
filtered in through the trees allowing a bit of
visibility. It would be comforting place, but the
absence of
those three
gave me a deep disquiet and troubled all of us.
1 Jan 1991
Light
broke. I decided to stay in the
trackpants I used for
sleeping. I knew I could not take the girls across the
way
others
did. In case they did not get back, I
have to assume the
worse and go
down myself to get help from other people.
I threw
the jeans
down the slope among the trees and bushes.
It will be
a fitting
rest for it from the trips we shared together.
It
also
lightened my load. If necessary, I
might abandon the
backpack as
well.
The others
wanted to leave that place. I told them
those three
would have
started at day break. It may take 1 1/2
hours. That
place we
were at have been the best place to rest since the
whole
afternoon before. We should wait for
them there. If they
did not get
back by 730am, I would go down while they stayed.
I felt good
when at about 7am, we heard a whistle.
Then their
shouts from
across a valley. I never wanted to be a
hero.
Heros are
good guys and they normally die young.
Especially
since by
doing so, it would have meant that those three have met
with
accidents. They got back with the water
20 minutes later.
They got
down allright. Lost their way getting
back. They were
tired and
rested till daybreak before getting back.
That water
was important. We cooked breakfast and
drank to our
hearts'
content. Giving us the strenght to continue on. We
still had to
make a few more dangerous crossings. I
would have
hate to do
it by myself even in the morning without the food and
drink. It would be very dangerous when done at
night. Only
they could
have done it. It exceeded by far what
the other guy
have done
the night before. After that, it was
all downhill.
We took all
together about 3 hours to get to the spring water at
the bottom
of a valley strewn with huge marble
boulders the
size of
houses.
From then it
was easy. We made our way to the main
road. Got
out near a
bridge. I forgot the name, but on the
other side of
the bridge
is a gigantic boulder with a little pavilion build on
top. Thumb
down a lorry which gave us a lift to Tienchi a few
kilometers
down the road. While forest and
wilderness are nice,
I must say
so is civilization where there are restaurants and
cold
drinks. Interesting coincidence was the
bus driver taking
us back to
Hualien was the same stout friendly driver who took
us there
originally. Found he was called Mr
Yen. He detoured
the bus to
drop us at the railway station.
I have to
say it was a real good trip. I do not
know if I get
such
experiences again. But one thing for
sure, I will find
out.